Should The Red Sox Trade for Roy Halladay?

Doc Halladay has become the second hottest topic in sports, next to Brett Favre and the Sox are allegedly in the running for his services. Of course reports were similar during the winter when they were supposedly front runners for Mark Texieria but we all know how that worked out.

The questions facing most contending teams as the deadline approaches are; do we leverage the future for a marquee player or are we good enough win without making any moves.

For the sake of argument let’s assume that the Jays would be looking for something along the lines of Buchholz and Lowrie in a trade with the Sox.

It all comes down to your view on prospects. Do you trade them away for a proven player or do you hold on to them and continue develop your team for the future.

I’m never against trading prospect for a proven player. Look at how the Hanley Ramirez deal worked out. Sure we lost an all star but we gained an ace and Cy Young-caliber pitcher and possibly one of the most underrated players in the bigs. Not a bad deal if you ask me.

One of the major differences here however is the age factor. Josh Beckett was 25 when the sox dealt for him Roy Halladay is 32. It’s one thing to trade away an up-and-coming player for a guy about to enter his prime but you certainly have to consider the fact that you’d likely be trading away a 24-year-old starter.

With that said Roy Halladay is a beast and he likely has plenty of pitching still to do in his career, so you really can’t be all that concerned with his age.

Another part of the dilemma is you’re trading a short stop. That’s a position the Red Sox have fumbled over since trading Nomar in 2004. Sure they’ve handled it well on the field but it hasn’t exactly been a stable position since #5.

Yet another hurdle is the fact that you’re trading within the division. If you view Buchholz as a guy with Lester-like potential do you trade him within the division? At the same rate, do the Blue Jay get better by trading their best player to one of the best teams in the division.

I know we as Red Sox fans like to pretend that the Sox don’t spend outlandish amounts of money on players, in reality they do. There is definitely a difference between the Yankees and Mets but let’s be honest…the Twins they are not.

The point of that rant is this. Roy Halladay is going to be a Free Agent in 2010. I have faith that the Red Sox would try to lock him up to a long-term deal after a trade but if a deal doesn’t get done you traded two of your top prospects for two years of Halladay.

Two years of Halladay might be a lot better than 10 years of Buch and Jeddy though so that’s why a situation like this is so difficult. As fans it’s easy to say one way or the other what the team should do. Most fans like to say they’d rather win now then focus on the future.

The crux of this argument is that there’s no guarantee that your prospects are going to work out the way you hope they will. Sure Han-Ram turned out to be an All-Star but do the Red Sox win a World Series without Beckett and Lowell? Doubtful.

At this point Halladay is 10-3 with the Jays. Assuming he stays healthy you know he’s going to give you something like seven to 10 more wins with an ERA around 3.50. Then you’re looking at something like 17-8 for the next season, but that’s kind of getting ahead of ourselves.

Can you get similar numbers out of a combination of Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden and Dice-K? Because if you can then I don’t think it’s necessary to trade Buchholz, Lowrie and potentially more prospects for Halladay.

This is all similar is some ways to when the Twins were listening to offers for Johan Santana. Reports were calling for a potential Ellsbury-Lester deal. Knowing what you know now, if you could go back and make that deal would you? I certainly wouldn’t.

When all is said and done I think some team will put together an attractive enough package to pick up Halladay but I don’t think that team is going to be the Red Sox. Over the last few years the Red Sox have managed the trade deadline very well.

I think not making this deal will make prove to be the right call for the Red Sox. Granted I have absolutely no idea what I’m talking about, what I’m saying is that the Red Sox should hang on to Buchholz, Lowrie, Bowden et al. It’s not that I think they are all going to be studs. But they are chips that could be used in a future deal that would better suit the Sox.

Of course if Buchholz blows up tonight and gives up 10 runs in two innings then goes on to have a 8.50 ERA over the next week then all bets might be off.

Due to my new zip code I’m going to say the Phillies make a move to pick up Halladay and then run away with the NL East, because the Mets are not playing well.

Why I'm glad the Red Sox retired Johnny Pesky's number

Settle down. The Red Sox aren’t cheapening the meaning of retired numbers by putting number 6 on the right field façade. I couldn’t be happier that they are looking the other way with their rules for retired numbers on this one.

Was Pesky a great player. No, not really. He was a pretty good player. He made one all-star team, was in the top five in MVP voting a couple of times, led the league in hits a bunch of times and rarely ever struck out. Actually he’d fit the profile of what the Sox look for now pretty well.

He wasn’t a great player and he won’t be in the Hall of Fame but sometimes it’s about more than just stats when it comes to things like this. Pesky deserves to have his number retired because he’s more than just a former player/coach/broadcaster and current mascot. His 57 years of service have made him a part of Red Sox lore.

Johnny Pesky is just as much a part of the Red Sox and Fenway Park as his right field foul pole or any of the other players represented by the five (six counting Jackie Robinson) numbers lofting over the grandstand. That’s what this is about.

The current ownership has done an incredible job of getting things right since they took over in 2002. Of course it helps that the team has won a pair of World Series championships too, but making the decisions that they’ve made has been a key to the success of the franchise.

In 1999 Dan Duquette called Fenway Park economically obsolete and at that time seemingly everyone was pushing for a new stadium. When the current ownership took over they decided to go with upgrades to Fenway instead, I’d say it worked out pretty well. Fenway is literally an American cathedral and I for one can’t wait for the 100th birthday celebration in 2012.

Back to the point I was trying to make. Pesky is as much a part of the history of the franchise as anything else. Have you ever taken anyone to their first game at Fenway? What do you point out to them? The monster, CITGO sign, Pesky’s pole, the Yawkey morse code on the monster, the stories behind the other retired numbers and a host of other anecdotes about America’s favorite ballpark.

The team isn’t just honoring longevity, I agree it wouldn’t be worth it just to honor someone for being with the club for the better part of six decades, but Pesky is more than a guy that’s been around forever. He’s a symbol. And if you were one of the thousands of people to take in the Dark Knight at the Jordan’s IMAX you know that symbols invoke something in people.

Pesky is a symbol to the fans. A symbol of the storied teams of yesteryear, he’s a park of the folklore of the Red Sox. Maybe he was just the right guy in the right place at the right time but he tells a story and now the ‘6’ on the right field façade will continue to tell that story to fans for another six decades.

I get the disagreements. I understand people thinking its hokey to retire his number but like I said its about more than numbers in some cases. I don’t really get how anyone could be anything more than thrilled for the guy. I mean he’s almost 90 years old, he’s given his entire life to the Red Sox, and he’s Mr. Red Sox.

There are certainly some other players that are more deserving than Pesky in the traditional sense, Jim Rice, Tony C, Dom DiMaggio to name a few, but his story is unique.

This ownership has done well catering to the fans with the upgrades they’ve made to the park, they’ve made people say ‘to hell with a new stadium, we’ve got Fenway and that’s the way I like it’. Find a Yankees fan next year and ask them which stadium they like better old Yankee stadium or new. Sure the new one might be nicer, cleaner, have more luxury suites and better seats but deep down they’ll wish they never built the thing.

Johnny Pesky is a fixture of Fenway Park, so is his pole (snicker…) and now, rightfully so, is his number 6. Sitting next to his friends Bobby Doerr and Teddy Ballgame and the other Red Sox legends he reminds us of.

It's Time for the Johnny Pesky Rule

Grandfathered, (verb from; Grandfather Clause); to exempt (one involved in an activity or business) from new regulations: as in ‘the new ordinance restricts the size of billboards, but it grandfathers those erected before 1997.’ (dictionary.com)

The grandfather clause is something that Major League Baseball should have looked into before making its latest fan alienating decision. For the second time, well technically the third time Major League Baseball is booting Johnny Pesky out of the Red Sox dugout. Some people might say this isn’t a big deal and it’s probably safer not to have Pesky in the dugout during games but I disagree and in my opinion the fact that a guy like Pesky isn’t grandfathered in this rule is complete BS.

Johnny Pesky turns 88 in September and he’s been with the Red Sox for 55 years. 55 years with the Sox and MLB is really going to remove him from the dugout because he’s not deemed as essential staff, give me a break. Pesky has a physical part of Fenway Park named after him, he’s been with the Sox for 55 of his 68 years in baseball and his biography is titled Mr. Red Sox. I really don’t have to make the case that he’s a part of the team. He was a part of one of the greatest Red Sox teams ever in the mid to late 40’s that featured “the Teammates” (which is a fantastic book by the way) Ted Williams, Bobby Doerr and Dom DiMaggio he’s like a living breathing piece of Red Sox history and lore.

I have a little bit of a personal attachment to Pesky for a couple of reasons. One, he was one of my grandfather’s favorite players when he was younger and my grandfather had a big impact on just about every aspect of my life. Two, I was fortunate enough to briefly meet Johnny Pesky when I went to spring training in 2005. It was just long enough to get my picture taken with him and say a few quick things but in that brief meeting I learned a lot about Johnny Pesky. He was incredibly gracious and had a giant smile on his face, he was so happy to be out at the ball park shaking hands with fans talking baseball.

He legitimately was one of the happiest people I have ever seen and seeing the way he reacted to the each fan, young and old and the way his eyes lit up every time some one handed him Mr. Red Sox to sign or how he excited he was to talk about ‘the Teammates’ with me even if it was only for a brief moment. Pesky reminded me of why I love baseball so much. I like to be 10 years old once in while and that’s how Johnny Pesky made me feel, like I was a little kid it’s the same way I feel every time I set foot inside Fenway it’s the reason why above all the other sports I’ve grown to embrace, baseball will always be my first love.

In my opinion Pesky represents everything that is good about baseball and sports. He genuinely loves baseball and loves the Red Sox, I cannot think of one good reason why he shouldn’t be allowed to watch Red Sox games from the dugout, I think after all these years that is something that he has earned.

In 1997, Dan Duquette told Pesky he would no long be in uniform with the team but once the new ownership took over they changed that. But then again at the end of 2004 the MLB told Pesky he was being banned from the dugout and watched from the stands when the Sox won the World Series. He went back to the dugout in 2005 and the MLB had no problem with it until this year. According to Theo Epstein the Sox have been breaking the rule for a while but now the MLB is enforcing the rule with fines.

According to the Globe in Gordon Edes column today

The rule governing dugout occupancy states that only the players, manager, and
six coaches can be in uniform and in the dugout, Garagiola said. The rule used
to be only five coaches, until bench coaches became in vogue. The trainer is
allowed to be on the bench, and it is understood that the equipment manager and
an assistant trainer would be going back and forth to the clubhouse, so their
presence is accepted.

Some teams feel that extra personnel could be a potential advantage for teams; I’m not against that I agree there should be limitations, but I am calling for some sort of Grandfather Clause for guys like Johnny Pesky. I really just don’t understand removing someone like Pesky from the dugout. Clearly Major League Baseball just doesn’t care about pissing off fans, the Direct TV package certainly affects more people then this ruling but since I live in Boston and get all the Sox games on NESN it’s not one that hits home quite like Johnny Pesky being removed from the dugout.

Two of the major points or arguments I’ve seen not necessarily supporting the decision but highlighting why its not a bad thing are as follows. If you allow Pesky on the bench what’s to stop other teams from doing the same with former players and end up having 15 non-players in the dugout. The other is the health risk that Pesky is frail and could easily be hurt. I feel like the risk of Pesky getting hit by a ball in the dugout is equal to the chance of anyone else in the dugout getting hit by a foul ball.

As far as keeping the number of people in the dugout from getting out of control, I’m fine with that, which is why I suggested a Grandfather Clause for someone like Pesky. I don’t really think he’s going to give Boston an advantage I think he is probably more there for the fans because he enjoys being at the ballpark, interacting with the fans and being part of the team.

I also think it’s important for fans to connect with the sports past, I know that my fandom has been increased significantly by the history of the sport. I love reading about Red Sox teams of the past, I loved my trip to the Hall of Fame as a kid and have been itching to go back ever since and I’m completely fascinated by baseball in the 1920’s seeing how the sport emerged from the dead ball era and eventually helped pull the United States out of the depression. I think that Pesky is a great representation of the history of one of the most storied franchises in the world.

According to Edes column the Sox are fighting this decision but it will be interesting to see what they do come opening day. I assume we will at least see Pesky on the field and in uniform before games and in the clubhouse but he will probably move up to the stands for the actual game, although it would be good to see the Sox fight it and have Pesky in the dugout for at least the home opener.

Here is the link to the Globe article: Baseball Ready to Give Pesky the Hook (Boston Globe)

And if you’d like to see some of the lively discussions on the matter check out Sons of Sam Horn: MLB bans Pesky from the dugout (again)

One last thing, this quote from SoSH pretty much sums up my feelings on Dan Shaughnessy and clearly I’m not alone.

From poster AlNipper49 – “If I was Schilling and Shaughnessy got ALS I’d find a new fucking charity.”

Couldn’t have said it better myself.